Two words: Microsoft Pluton.
Aaaaint touching that shit.
Oh gosh. Forgot all about that shit. No thanks.
Do AMD not realise that Linux/Privacy nerds stuck with them regardless for years. Would they have survived without that loyalty?
Do linux and privacy focused consumers actually make up a large portion of their market share? Linux users still make up a small portion of desktop users, and not even all of those really care much about privacy.
By themselves, no.
But they’re the people friends and family ask for help when deciding to buy a computer. It’s why Intel has slumped. Most people don’t know what a CPU does, so that’s not why they’re picking Intel or AMD - they’re choosing based off recommendations from more knowledgeable people.
And they are early adopters.
For many years AMD was uncompetitive compared to Intel / Nvidia. Intel had 80% of the market at one point. It probably would have died off if it wasn’t for folk that wanted Linux compatibility. Many run FOSS because of privacy. Linux is a key part of that.
Everybody has to support the new new underdog Intel.
I did! I bought shares when they tanked.
They’re still tanking
Good job! ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
They sell everything they put into laptops, in that market they can’t keep up with demand. Similar story for enterprise.
In the DIY desktop market, which this article is about, It’s been instilled into everyone to wait for the X3D chips, by basically every reviewer. And for good reason.
Certainly doesn’t help that:
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a Windows 11 bug made performance look over 10% worse than it actually was on release, which is when all benchmarks are done and opinions are set (E: btw this has been fixed, and the fix also helped older CPUs too)
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AMD decided to massively lower energy usage at the expense of out-of-box performance (I actually love this decision, I’m sick of components getting more and more power-hungry, and I’m sick of a hot stuffy room. Most gaming-focussed reviewers hated it though, which bugged me tbh because they also moan when power usage is high. I think they just like being negative because it drives engagement). At previous-gen TDPs, Zen 5 gains a lot of performance, but that’s not how they are benchmarked.
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the price of Zen 4 has dropped, and the 7800X3D in particular looks compelling to those who might’ve wanted Zen 5.
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most DIY PC builders are PC gamers, and what do we need new CPUs for? Most gamers are more GPU bottlenecked right now, especially as people are moving to 1440p, 1440p ultrawide, or 4K. Add to that the fact that there have been very few good PC game releases this year and of course we’re in a slump.
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the only people who can buy a Zen5 CPU and drop it in their machine easily are Zen4 users, who won’t see a large uplift and likely won’t bother. People with earlier systems are looking at a significant investment - new motherboard and DDR5 RAM, why bother with that when the 5700X3D is such an insanely good value proposition that still won’t be bottlenecked unless you’re running an insanely good GPU?
Let me agree with you explicitly on loving the return to a sane power configuration here. I was watching Hardware Unboxed’s retest of this after the patches and it takes almost fifteen minutes of them reiterating that the 9700X and the 14700K are tied for performance and price before they even mention the bombshell that the 9700X is doing that with about half the wattage.
The fact that we keep pushing reviews and benchmarks focused strictly on pedal-to-the-metal overclocked performance and nothing else is such a disgrace. I made the mistake to buy into a 13700K and I have it under lower than out of box power limits manually both to prevent longevity issues and because this damn computer is more effective as a hair dryer than anything else.
We don’t mention it much because Intel was in the process of catching on actual fire at the same time, but the way this generation has been marketed, presented to reviewers, supported and eventually reviewed has been a massive trainwreck, considering the performance of the actual product.
I’m still on my Zen1 1600, with DDR4 RAM and RX580 8GB which I built back in 2018. Whenever I’m thinking of upgrading I just look at the prices. I’d basically need to upgrade everything, maybe aside from GPU which would become a giant bottleneck, so it should be upgraded as well.
I really don’t even want to think about gutting my PC and upgrading, I’d much rather switch to a console.the price of Zen 4 has dropped, and the 7800X3D in particular looks compelling to those who might’ve wanted Zen 5.
This is the big one.
Literally the best gaming chip from any company is a Zen 4 and surprisingly cheap
For most people they won’t need anything more than a 7800x3d for 5 maybe even 10 years?
I’d hate to say what GPU it takes to make cpu the bottleneck on one of those.
Agreed, I bought a 7950X3D over the 9950X as it was $150 cheaper. Seemed like the smarter move.
I did the same thing also assuming kernel drivers were more mature. I’ll let someone else beta test for me.
For most people they won’t need anything more than a 7800x3d for 5 maybe even 10 years?
I know from experience, it is very difficult to get 10 years of gaming out of a processor. I’m a pretty frugal guy, and I’m actually ok with merely “acceptable” gaming performance, but I think the most I’ve ever managed was 8 years on the same processor, and that was with the core 2 duo. I called it the super chip, the chip that stayed competitive even when multiple new architectures were available. And honestly, 8 years was really pretty good. But when I switched to a quad core i5, it was definitely a necessary change.
idk I was using a 12 year old cpu and it worked fine for gaming. Only upgraded because I wanted to compile stuff in reasonable timeframes.
The Phenom 2?!
I barely remember it, but yeah, it was a beast.
But my 1700x went hard for five years. The only reason I tacked the extra 5 on was x3d changes things up.
Now, since I’ve made that comment AMD has solved the Zen 5 latency issues but cutting it by more than half. That’s what was holding it back. So when the Zen 5 x3d comes out, it’s going to be nuts.
But…
It’s going to take a while for those changes to become industry standard. It might be a year before Zen 5 x3d, I’m not sure if they’ve even announced when. So games won’t take full advantage of them right away.
It takes like a 4070 super to CPU bound a 7800x3d, and fine tune some settings and it’ll balance out
We’re not going to have a new screen resolution jump, and that combo can max out 4k 120fps on pretty much anything thanks to frame generation without even touching upscaling.
There’s just not a lot to improve until we see a major jump like VR finally taking off.
I still have my 3700X and it keeps up well enough with a 4070 even on cyberpunk.
100%, it’s the lack of the X3D parts. Zen 5 on its own is compelling but not for gamers and DIY, would I buy it in a pre-built desktop or a business machine, Yes I would all day long. But if I’m gaming and there’s no X3D part why would I get anything else other than a 7800 X3D. AMD really shot themselves in the foot and what’s worse is we warned them it was coming yet they chose not to listen.
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Everything is expensive and everyone’s underemployed thanks to all the damage large corporations have done to the job market and the economy as a whole.
I just want to make almost as much money as I made as a shift manager in fast food 10 years ago, which is a job I ironically walked away from to get educated. I just hope the democrats win so they can maybe reverse some of that anti homelessness stuff because we’re all going to need it.
100%
People are making more money and growing poorer by the month.
People are not growing poorer, they are growing richer
https://www.bls.gov/charts/usual-weekly-earnings/usual-weekly-earnings-over-time-total-men-women.htm
People make more money now than before the pandemic, even inflation adjusted
Inflation adjusted looking pretty flat and that’s if you trust their optimistic inflation calculations that likely underestimate it. Housing, education, and health care greatly outpace inflation btw, but hey, at least TVs are cheaper.
Source on inflation being underestimated?
Also if something like housing grows in price faster than inflation, then something else has to grow slower than inflation for the inflation number to be what it is. No matter what category you pick that grew faster than inflation, it doesn’t matter to the overall increase in prices by definition
For example, grocery prices have increased slower than inflation. It doesn’t actually make my argument any stronger, since it just means other things increased faster
Grocery prices is actually a great example of official inflation numbers being underestimated. My grocery bill has increased by a minimum of 50% (and more like 100%) since the pandemic, but official numbers put it at about 25%. They have a basket of goods that they base their numbers off of, but that basket changes and my suspicion is that they change it in a way to make the numbers look better than they really are. In my case, I’ve been buying the same stuff all along (i.e. mainly simple non-processed ingredients) with modifications only to try to reduce my bill (e.g. I haven’t bought any eggs over $2 a dozen, which means I haven’t bought eggs in a long time).
I sarcastically pointed out “at least TVs are cheaper” because yes, there are categories where some things are cheaper, but the far more important categories of housing, education, food, and health care have experienced ridiculous amounts of inflation.
I bought the same things from the same store in 2017 as today. The $5.99 yogurt is now $7.99
There’s two different brands, 4 lbs and 5 lbs and they have the same price
Other things went up similarly, like half a gallon of organic milk was $4.99 and now it’s $5.99
I did not see a single thing that went up 50%, not one
Don’t come here with your data and upset our dearly held opinions.
https://www.bls.gov/lau/stalt.htm
We measure this. Underemployment is not that high.
Exactly. I really like the term “vibecession” coined by Kyla Scanlon, because it really hits this perfectly. People think things are bad, despite all evidence to the contrary.
From the numbers I’ve seen, the average household (i.e. making <$70k/year) is maybe paying a few percent more on net than they were 5 years ago. Wages tend to lag inflation, so it makes sense that people’s wages would still be catching up now that inflation is pretty much back to normal. It’ll probably take another year or two, but it’ll get there.
Me, with a 7800X3D:
My ex, with a 7800X3D:
Anotger friend, with a 7600:
Collectively: “why would we upgrade just one generation?”
Like, sure, I have a Threadripper 1st and 2nd gen. I’m weird like that. I have a VII and a 7900 XTX. But the 7xxx is fine. I went from TR 2950X to the 7800X3D. Do I want more cores? Fuck yeah. Am I going to pay thousands of dollars for a modern high-core TR? Lmfao no.
If I was building a new machine for someone, sure, 9xxx. But shit, even a 3xxx in my network is still kicking ass. Why the hell would I upgrade when I don’t want to? And the 7xxx is cheaper and - mostly - offers the same performance.
Drop the price if they want to sell more, simple as that. And don’t expect upgrades every release family.
Let’s use the car as an example… Imagine you must get to point B from point A following all the rules of the road which prevent the 🚓 🚨 police from chasing you and shooting you until they run out of bullets. Well then you will be on highway 5 at some point if you’re in California, so let’s assume you can’t go faster than 85mph but at 5pm or 8am you can only go 2mph. So why would you buy a car that can drive at 5000mph is you don’t want to? I totally agree with you on that point. Why eat ice cream 🍨🍦 if I don’t want to…and it costs 10billion times more than not actually eating ice cream?
Same for cpus. Why get a new CPU if they put some bullshit things in it that your Linux can’t use because they are made specifically for windows 11 and no one wants to use windows 11. Friends don’t let friends use windows 11. Heck I wouldn’t drive over a cat and then let the cat get windows 11. Only let the people you hate the most actually get windows 11. Like your boss. Fuck him. Let him get windows 11!
For me, it’s because:
- I have a 5950X and it seems pointless to upgrade from there. Sure the new stuff is faster, but disproportionately so for the price. I would need to replace a bunch of components.
- I recently upgraded to 128GB RAM, and it was cheaper to do that with DDR4
- I’ve had 2 faulty Ryzen processors (1700X, then my first 5950X), and I’ve learned to wait until the kinks are ironed out.
Out for curiosity, why do you need 128gb of ram?
As of yet, I don’t. But the idea is I eventually move my VM/container host back to my more powerful desktop machine. It also runs Gentoo, so now I can build everything in RAM, even large packages like Firefox, without having to close other programs.
I’m still on AM4, mainly because the jump is very expensive, essentially a new pc.
I would need a new CPU, motherboard and Ram to fit in my itx case.
Exactly, and my 5600 is still doing a great job. Give me a good deal and I’ll upgrade, but I don’t have a compelling reason right now to upgrade. Oh, and if I do need more performance, I can look at the AM4 X3D chip, which would be cheaper than getting AM5 and rebuilding my PC.
I got another 3-5 years with my 5800X3D
I have an other 2-3 years with my 1600.
I’ll probably get one, once enough of its vulnerabilities are discovered and post-mitigation benchmarks are released.
And once I have enough money.I bought a 7800x3d, so I’m not in the market for a new CPU for years to come. If I hadn’t already bought it, I’d buy it now.
Ditto. 7800X3D is a beast for games and I don’t give half a shit about productivity performance on my gaming machine. I got mine for around $350 early this year and I’m absolutely floored that it’s now over $400. That’s not the direction things are supposed to go.
I think we may be in the last generations of x86’s desktop and laptop dominance. All phones and now all Macs run on ARM-based chips and they do just fine while sipping watts, compared to x86’s two big proponents both having faltering launches on their latest generations with ever higher TDPs where you only get more processing power by using more electrical power.
It is not an upgrade over the 7800X3D.
We’re all broke and performance improvements have been basically stagnant?
We’re spending our money on fucking groceries… It’s time to optimize, not upscale.
I am still running an FX-8320 and it’s fast enough for everything that I need it for. It baffles me to see people arguing about the differences between different Ryzen CPUs.
Some people use computers for more demanding things. For anyone who just uses the computer for web browsing, email and watching videos, anything but the most feeble machine from the past decade or more will be fine.
I’m considering it, but only just, my 5800x is good enough for most gaming, which is GPU bound anyway, and I run a dual xeon rig for my workstation.
zen 2-4 took care of a lot of the demand, we all have 8-16 cores now, what else could they give us?
what else could they give us?
AI!!!
^^/s
I have a 5900x and honestly don’t see any need for an upgrade anytime soon.
A new CPU would maybe give me like 10 fps more in games, but a new GPU would do more. And I don’t think the CPU will be a bottle neck in the next few years
Even beyond that, short of something like blender, Windows just can’t handle that kind of horsepower, it’s not designed for it and the UI bogs down fairly fast.
Linux, otoh, I find can eat as much CPU as you throw at it, but often many graphics applications start bogging down the X server for me.
So I have a windows machine with the best GPU but passable cpu and a decent workstation gpu with insane cpu power on linux.
What is your problem with Windows, though?
Meh, not nearly as configurable as linux, some things you can’t change.
NFS beats SMB into a cocked hat.
You start spending more time in a terminal on linux, because you’re not dealing with your machine, you’re always connecting to other machines with their resources to do things. Yeah a terminal on windows makes a difference, and I ran cygwin for a while, it’s still not clean.
Installing software sucks, either having to download or the few stuff that goes through a store. Not that building from source is much better, but most stuff comes from distro repos now.
Once I got lxc containers though, actually once I tried freebsd I lost my windows tolerance. Being able to construct a new effective “OS” with a few keystrokes is incredible, install progarms there, even graphical ones, no trace on your main system. There’s just no answer.
Also plasma is an awesome DE.
Ah, ok, I thought you were taking about Windows not being able to run CPU at full speed. But yes, it’s certainly a different OS with ups and downs.
I thought about an upgrade for a minute from my 3700X, but I realized none of the games I play or programs I use are demanding on CPU enough that it would make any real difference in my experience.
Games have kind of stalled out for me too, I haven’t played a AAA game in years it feels like, and the other games I do play are not that demanding on modern hardware.
I would also need to upgrade to DDR5 RAM which is just more cost for a marginal upgrade.
I’m in the same boat.
Have the 3600 with a 1050ti (!), and its does a good job when I play the 2-3 games I like to play. 32gb for my apps and docker containers. Plenty.
I see no reason to upgrade.
It has always been like this for me. Sticked to a platform until it died and never upgraded (OK ram maybe) until I was forced to.
